Tag Archives: Rob Bell

Seinfeld’s Depiction of Hell

 

 

Some people listen to Rob Bell‘s views on hell. Others listen to Francis Chan.

As for me?

I listen to Seinfeld. :)

Be sure to click here to watch it (embedding disabled).

After watching, click back here and leave me a funny comment.

Rob Bell Stirs Up Controversy (Again)

3 months ago, I wrote a blog post on Rob Bell’s new book, “Love Wins“.  What I said in that post (essentially) was that there were some indicators that Bell was going to say that everyone was going to Heaven. I’m not comfortable with this idea, but I was comfortable with the main idea of his sermon on the topic where he stated that, “The cross is God’s way of saying, ‘Love Wins.’”  I left my full endorsement of the book OR writing it off completely, to wait until I read the book.  That seemed to make the most sense.

So I figured this would be my last thoughts on the matter until reading the book that releases next month UNTIL Rob Bell became a trending topic on twitter Saturday night.

Do you know how difficult it is to become a trending topic on twitter?

You have to start a revolution in Egypt. Or have a huge show like The Grammy’s or the Oscars. Or be Justin Bieber and get a haircut.  But these are (typically) the only ways you get to be in the top 10 talked about things on twitter at a given moment.

So how does a Christian writer, who did not say or do anything on the internet on Saturday night (nor participate in any scandal), get propelled to such a highly talked about topic?

By having John Piper bid you a goodbye.

If you are unaware, John Piper is a conservative, Reformed pastor at a large church in Minnesota.  Piper tweeted “Farewell Rob Bell” along with a link to Justin Taylor’s post on Bell (Justin runs one of the most prominent Christian blogs on the web and is the VP of editorials for CrossWay).  What Justin says in reference to Rob Bell is:

It is better for those teaching false doctrine to put their cards on the table (a la Brian McLaren) rather than remaining studiously ambiguous in terminology.

So on that level, I’m glad that Rob Bell has the integrity to be lay his cards on the table about universalism. It seems that this is not  just optimism about the fate of those who haven’t heard the Good News, but (as it seems from below) full-blown hell-is-empty-everyone-gets-saved universalism.

Sounds fair, right? If someone were to question orthodox Christianity and say that no matter what, you go to Heaven, this would be a problem.  And probably an interesting blog post.

But this wasn’t what actually happened.  Rob Bell never made universalist claims (even if he intentionally flirts with the idea – this is what the world calls “marketing”), yet was called a false teacher before Justin even read his book.  In fact, he even whipped out the Corinthians verse about “Satan masquerading himself” and that his servants in the end will “get what they deserve” (2 Cor. 11:14-15) when referring to Bell.  Yikes. To watch a video on a dude and jump to servant-of-Satan is a big jump (verse is now removed due to complaints). And it’s an even bigger jump for Justin, who openly admits in the post to reading snippets of the book and the publisher’s note, who he says is not even written by the author.  He also said he watched the following video, which “shows that [Bell] is moving farther and farther away from anything resembling biblical Christianity.”  Here is that video:

So, as a result of this nonsense, here are my thoughts:

1.) It’s scary what Piper can do with a tweet. I mean think about it – a Christian book being that highly talked about online is crazy.  There’s 25,000 facebook recommendations & over 1200 comments.  Those numbers don’t even include blog posts or twitter.  That’s nuts.

2.) Rob Bell loves controversy. I wrote about this in my last post and essentially what I said was that Rob Bell frames questions to make us uncomfortable.  He did it with the Virgin Birth in Velvet Elvis and he did it with his other titles in Sex God or Jesus Wants to Save Christians.  Now normally people who start up controversy annoy me, but in Bell’s case, I think he ends up creating very meaningful conversations about a difficult topic.  Which leads me to the point that…

3.) Universalism is one of the biggest questions being raised in Christianity today. People (reasonably so) are uncomfortable with thinking that people like Ghandi or Anne Frank are burning in hell forever (as Rachel Held Evans pointed out today).  I think it is quite OK to question that and I think that should make us as Christians a little uncomfortable!  And what if we as Christians were more offended by the idea of everyone going to hell than everyone getting into Heaven?

4.) Maybe there is room for latitude in Christian thought.  It was annoying to see Justin Taylor/John Piper make such bold statements about how certain they were that they were right.  This is annoying in and of itself, but when it is paired with an assumption and not a full reading of a text, the annoyance level raises substantially.  What if a Christian didn’t HAVE to be Reformed and believe in predestination? What if you could be an Arminian and believe in free-will?  Or what if you could be a Roman Catholic and still inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?  Or what if you could be a peace-lover, or a Pentecostal, or a female pastor?  I could be reading this wrong, and as Jason Boyett pointed out, I hope I am wrong.  But the arrogance in the Christian Right is getting old.

5.) Shame on us as Christians.  Haven’t we done this before?  Beaten each other up over a false assumption?  I liked what Scot McKnight had to say:

Frankly, John Piper’s flippant dismissal of Rob Bell is unworthy of someone of Piper’s stature. The way to disagree with someone of Rob Bell’s influence is not a tweet of dismissal but a private letter or a phone call. Flippancy should have no part in judging a Christian leader’s theology, character or status.

My friend Chris tweeted a song from old school Relient K called “Down in Flames” that I think wraps this all up the best:

Christians– we’re all afraid of fire.
We prefer to suck on pacifiers.
Baby pacifists, we’re throwing fits.
We don’t shake hands, we shake our fists.

We’re cannibals.
We watch our brothers fall.
We eat our own, the bones and all.

Finally fell asleep on the plane
to wake to see we’re going down in flames.

We’re going down, down, down in flames.
We’re gonna drown, drown, drown insane.

We see the problem and the risk,
but nothing’s solved.
We just say, “Tisk, tisk, tisk,”
and, “Shame, shame, shame.”

Christians– we mourn, the thorn is stuck
in the side of the body watch it self-destruct.
The enemy is much ignored
when we fight this Christian civil war.

We’re cannibals.
We watch our brothers fall.
We eat our own, the bones and all.

Finally fell asleep on the plane
to wake to see we’re going down in flames.

We’re going down, down, down in flames.
We’re gonna drown, drown, drown insane.

Finally fell asleep on the plane
to wake to see we’re going down in flames…

Let’s extinguish the anguish
for which we’re to blame,
and save the world
from going down in flames.

Let me pause to clarify
(’cause I’m sure you’re asking, “Why?”).
I stand before you and proudly claim
to belong to what this song complains.

I’m part of the problem,
I confess,
But I gotta get this off my chest.

Let’s extinguish the anguish
for which we’re to blame,
and save the world
from going down in flames.

“The enemy is much ignored when we fight this Christian civil war” indeed.

What do you think about the “controversy” or the idea of universalism?

Rob Bell’s “Love Wins”

rob-bell-love-wins

It looks like Rob Bell (pastor/author) will be releasing another book in 2011, this one entitled “Love Wins”. I couldn’t agree more with this statement, but I’m not sure if I will actually end up agreeing with his premise in this book (despite me openly supporting most of the conclusions Rob Bell comes to). The description at the Harper One website says:

Rob Bell reveals a secret deep in the heart of millions of Christians–they don’t believe what they have been taught are the essential truths of their faith. Out of respect for their tradition, they keep quiet, confiding to a few close friends their doubts and questions about salvation, Jesus, and, of course, God.

Bell brings out to the open and faces squarely the questions on everyone’s mind: Does it really make sense that God is a loving, kind, compassionate God who wants to know people in a personal way, but if they reject this relationship with Jesus, they will be sent to hell where God will eternally punish them forever?

In Love Wins, Bell goes to the heart of these issues and argues that the church’s traditional understanding of heaven and hell is actually not taught by the Bible. Bell is emphatically not offering a new view of heaven and hell; instead, he closely examines every verse in the Bible on heaven and hell and shows what they really teach. And he discovers that Jesus’s most fundamental teaching about heaven and hell is, “Love wins.”

The question raised in the second paragraph is a huge question, and one that is very dividing for many Christians. Brian McLaren weighed in his opinion this year in A New Kind of Christianity, and ends up with a lot of different answers than I would cite (despite me still deeply appreciating him and his heart). I’m not sure if Rob is going to take it as far as “hell is non-existent”, but the one thing that Bell seems to do well is walk the line of controversy, yet remain a consistent voice that challenges the Evangelical community. The best example of this is in Velvet Elvis where Rob Bell uses the example of questioning the Virgin birth to make a case for deconstructing one’s faith, even though he doesn’t actually make the claim that Jesus was not born of a Virgin. Since this is a pillar of faith for most Christians (myself included), this (of course) stirred controversy in the ole blogosphere (love this word), and Rob Bell blew up with a Christian bestseller. Bell’s like the Kanye West of Christian authors, minus the arrogance and annoyance factor…so I guess not much at all.

But it seems like this new book is inspired by this sermon (which you can download for free) – and I agree with the mantra that:

The cross is God’s way of saying, “Love Wins.”

I can get behind that. And if you really like this idea, you can buy the phrase for a buck and put it on your bumper. Of course.

Love Wins. I agree. We’ll see about his new book.

Why Distance Yourself from Crazy Christians?

angry-marky-mark

I’ve been tossing around this concept in my head for a few weeks now and don’t have a clear answer.  How do rational, objective-thinking Christians distance themselves from other preachers that have a large reach, but whose faith looks completely different from theirs? Do we just let it go and live our own lives and let our actions speak for themselves?  Before we can answer this, I suppose, is to ask why anyone would need to distance themselves from another Christian.

Let me start with a story.  My wife was in a natural, non-threatening conversation with a co-worker about faith.  Her friend, who hasn’t been to church in years (but is interested in spirituality), had only seen Joel Osteen on TV and assumed that my wife went to a smaller version of his church.  ”I thought they were all basically the same” her friend said.  And her assessment was that Joel Osteen was making some basic, common-sense evaluations and made the assumption that Christians don’t really critically think.

Now I’m definitely not here to take shots at Osteen. I did that once and felt guilty about it.  But the truth is the Gospel takes a much different manifestation in my life than the way he talks about it.  And way more important than my personal differences from Osteen, is that the unchurched have a whole set of presumptions about us Jesus-followers.  Without recognizing these presumptions, it is difficult to have a faith conversation with someone who has different views.  Research shows that people who do not believe in Jesus associate Christians with being hypocritical, anti-gay, sheltered, too political, and judgmental (87% of people according to Barna).  Not the best of lists when talking about an inspiring faith, and honestly is not really something I’m interested in being a part of.

And when I talk about distancing myself from other Christians, I don’t just mean someone like Terry Jones, the man who became famous for his Qu’ran burning threats on September 11th.  I don’t think non-believers assume most Christ followers are that off the mark.  But I do mean Christian leaders whose faith looks so radically different from mine (or yours), but are still largely popular in the evangelical community.

Allow me to use the example of Mark Driscoll.  I know, I know.  Most people in our Christian subculture have a strong opinion of the man, positive or negative.  Mark is a guy who is quickly becoming the leading evangelical voice, but much of what he says drives me crazy.  Like when he talks about being a “Macho Man” Christian and how “there’s nothing holier than two men beating each other in a cage fight”. Or when he called 5 people up on stage at a conference and told them to punch him in the face.  ”Man up! I’m serious!” Mark said.  When the other men didn’t punch him, he had them kicked out of the conference for being sissies.

Whaaaat?

Or when he did a sermon on the heresy of “The Shack” (which is a fictional book). Or that he would use church discipline on men who decide to be stay-at-home fathers (How is his wife allowed to speak in church if he is taking everything literally and not in context?). Or how he does a sermon on the fallacies of Rob Bell’s theology.  Or that all yoga is evil. Or Avatar is the most demonic movie of all time.  Or his low view of women.  Or his arrogant-vibe.  Or his use of language.

driscoll-punch

And I don’t mean to single out Driscoll.  In fact, I agree with tons of his content and appreciate the Acts29 Network (especially the Rochester chapter).  I think he does a lot of good.  It’s just combined with a bit of crazy.  And I also know that Mark likes to utilize controversy to magnify his platform, but people read TIME magazine and see that his theology is in the “Top 10 Ideas That Are Changing the World”.  And I’m not sure that God’s holiness requires me to fight other men (see “Prince of Peace”).  But I’m lumped into this category with Driscoll when I believe in the cross.

But there is this line that can easily be crossed. We as Christians who desire to distance ourselves from other Christians can end up talking so bad about other Christian leaders that it ends up making us look like we beat each other up.  Like those previous paragraphs.  Did I end up just causing more disagreements among Christians that don’t really matter?  Because that’s definitely not my goal.

And Lord knows we as Christians get enough criticism from non-followers of Jesus without criticizing each other.  But I don’t want to be in certain camps, either.

And therein lies the tension.

So what do you think?  How do we distance ourselves from other Christians? Is it worth our time? When does it become hurtful to the Kingdom?

PS – I’m not interested in more comments on Driscoll, Osteen, or Bell’s theology.  I’m interested in the questions raised above.

Oh The Mega Church Part 2

megachurch

The following post is written by two people.  The first, is my fiance.  I love her a lot. The second is written by Aunt Susan. I love her a lot too.

Back at the start of this blog, I wrote a post called “Oh The Mega Church”.  As I re-read this post less than a year and a half later, I am slightly embarrassed.  I’ve wanted to remove it for quite some time, but the point of this blog is to journey together, and to see progress.  This includes the places I’m right and the places I’m wrong.  God has restored a lot of things in my life and part of that is my view of church, and even the mega church.  Through frequently listening to mega church leaders like Andy Stanley, Rob Bell, Francis Chan, Tim Keller, Craig Groeschel, Bill Hybels, Pete Wilson, etc. and seeing a lot of positive change come from these mega churches, my views are much different.  Most of my favorite thinkers and practioners in the church today…are at mega churches.

Is it the flavor of church for me? Nope. But that doesn’t mean I need to be a hater either.

Here is Sarah’s introduction to my aunt’s post: Read More »

Are Our Expectations of Preachers Too High?

rules-for-pastors

Be vulnerable and honest and personal, but not too personal because this isn’t a therapy session and we need lots of Bible but not too much because it has to relate to what’s happening in our lives and in the world today but it can’t be political and it has to be challenging and deep and significant and at the same time easy for everybody to understand and it has to be funny but not too funny because you’re not a comedian you’re a pastor and while you’re at it mix it up and try new things and don’t get it in a rut but make sure to be consistent and talk about your own struggles, but not too much because that’s depressing.  And we love stories about your family.  But not too many.  That can be weird.  Just be vulnerable and honest and…

Woah.

I must say this quote hit me pretty good. I think I place too many expectations on any given pastor. For some of us who have been in church for a long time, it’s hard not to compare preachers to others or analyze what we would have done or said differently.  I think this is especially true in an age where we have access to all the top preachers on the planet at the tips of our fingers.  Sometimes our expectations of preachers get a little bit ridiculous. Read More »

Resurrection Video by Rob Bell

resurrection-rob-bell

“At the heart of the historical Jesus story is the provocative, compelling, subversive, beautiful insistence that nothing can ever be the same again, not after resurrection.”

This is different.

I like it.

WDYT?